Top 5 Adventure Books: You Can Win One!

What if a book could be the nudge that gets you on a motorcycle, into a canoe, or across the ice?
Join Fletch on the porch as he sits down with Pop to grab their TOP 5 FAVORITE dog-eared adventure books. These are the stories that make you want to lace up your boots or shove off from shore. These aren’t just stories of survival. They’re roadmaps for grit, leadership, curiosity, and courage in the face of the impossible.

This conversation isn’t just a list; it’s a field guide for action. They dig into how big projects get built without modern tech, why mapping the unknown demands questions more than tools, what heartbreak can teach us about starting over, and how a calm leader can carry a crew across impossible odds. If stories have been tugging at you to do something bold—learn a skill, change careers, plan a trek—this is your spark. 

And at the end… Fletch added a little giveaway.

Adventure Book Giveaway: Do you want to win a digital or Audible copy of one of our Top 5 adventure books — your choice? Here’s how:

Send Fletch a message and tell him your favorite adventure book. Act fast and do it before October 15, 2025 and your name goes in the hat. Pop will pick the winner! It's simple!
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Guest Information
Joe Fletcher (Pop)
Born in Somerville, NJ in 1930, Pop is a regular guest of theMangoTimes Podcast. He spends his days tending to his garden and relaxing on the back porch (summer) and in his smoke shop (winters). He is a voracious reader (1-2 books each week on his favorite Kindle) and focuses on biographies and histories. Pop loves to take your questions, so feel free to contact him here: Let’s Connect.

Resources and Links
Nothing Like It In The World by Stephen Ambrose
Undaunted Courage by Stephen Ambrose
In the Heart of the Sea by Nathaniel Phillbrick
The River of Doubt by Candice Millard
Dove by Robin Lee Graham
Into Africa by Martin Dugard
Endurance by Alfred Lansing

Music used in this episode:
- Call to Adventure, Life of Riley and Carefree by Kevin MacLeod is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/
Source: http://incompetech.com/music/royalty-free/index.html?isrc=USUAN1100449
Artist: http://incompetech.com/

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Chapters

• 1:25 Introduction
• 3:26 Top 5 Books Part 1
• 13:05 Fletch Needs Your Help Next Season
• 14:18 Top 5 Books Part 2
• 22:22 Support theMangoTimes
• 26:11 Contest: Win A Free Book!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

Free audio post-production by alphonic.com.

SPEAKER_04: 0:10

And today's episode, I'm back on the porch with Pop where we talk about reading through adventure. These are the books that he has shared with me throughout my life that inspire me to want to live a life of adventure. And get this, we have a contest where you can win one of those books. Stay tuned for episode 44 of the Mango Times Podcast. Welcome to the Mango Times Podcast. This is Fletch, and I'm the writer and editor for everything you read and listen to here on the Mango Times. On this podcast, we're going to discuss anything and everything that we experience together here on this crazy planet. So join me as I talk about different aspects of culture, from great movies to great music, to everything we love to binge watch online together. And I'll do my best to entertain you as I share my perspective on life as a husband, dad, and grandfather to a big loud family. So sit back as I grab a cup of coffee and my favorite dog and quietly make some noise. You know, riding to Montana on a solo motorcycle trip, writing my first one-act play. And then this week I did my first stand-up gig ever. I went to an open mic comedy night and did my first stand-up set. I did what they call a tight five, just five minutes, which went way too fast. A few gutters, a few strikes. It was a fun experience. And the reason I know it was is I cannot wait to get back up there and do it again. I've been deep into improv. I'm starting a new improv class up in Sacramento, California, which is just about an hour and a half away from my house. So I'll go there once a week to learn more about the technique of improvisation. And then I took my dad, my brother and I took my dad on a rail ride adventure down the abandoned railroads of the gold country where you ride on a little motorized cart. And the three of us hopped on this cart and we went on a four-mile rail adventure through the foothills in the gold country of California. So, boy, just been a lot of fun going on. And speaking of pop, we thought we would sit back down together. So I swung over to his place and we sat on the back porch and we do what we do best. We swap stories and I asked him a few questions. And since adventure is the word of the year around here, we decided to talk about some of our favorite adventure books. These are the books that inspire us more than any of the books I've read. You know, part of it is my dad hands me the book and says, I think you'll like this one. And then I just get lost in the adventure. And we've talked about most of them here. So today, all in one place, it's all about adventure books. So let's head out to the porch and let's go talk to Pop. All right, welcome to episode 44 of the Mango Times Podcast. We're back on the porch with Pop. And today we are talking about adventure books. Have you read some adventure books?

SPEAKER_01: 3:42

Adventure books.

SPEAKER_04: 3:44

Probably, yes. Gotta think about it. Well, you're gonna know each one of these books I mentioned, so we're gonna talk about them and then we're gonna rank them one to five. And one of our listeners, if they're lucky enough, will get the chance to win one of these books. Wow. We'll talk about that at the end. But first, we grabbed our favorite stack of dog-eared adventure books, the kinds that make you want to lace up your boots or shove off from shore. And we decided to sit down here on the porch to count down our top five. These are not just stories of survival, they are roadmaps for grit, leadership, curiosity, and courage in the face of the impossible, just the kind of books we like to read, right? Right. All right, number five, in no particular order, is the book Nothing Like It in the World by Stephen Ambrose. It's about the building of the transcontinental railroad. Yeah, I read that book, yes. And I have a question for you. What hits you most about the scale of the railroad as you read that book?

SPEAKER_01: 4:54

Well it was, I think, tremendous what they accomplished, yes. The they're from where they started out and where they ended up, I thought was a great accomplishment.

SPEAKER_04: 5:04

You know, getting to the West Coast from the East Coast before then, what were your options?

SPEAKER_01: 5:10

Well, you had to mainly go by ship, or uh you had to go cross-country like Lewis and Clark. You know, you're by horseback. Horseback.

SPEAKER_04: 5:20

So by ship you would go around the horn?

SPEAKER_01: 5:23

Oh that yeah, because they they hadn't gone through the Panama Canal yet. They used to go around the horn, I think, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 5:31

So I think the builders of the railroad, when they came out to the West Coast, they actually had the option of going through the isthmus. So not through the canal. Yeah. And that was just as dangerous cutting across the jungle as it was to go around the horn. So if you were alive then, hammer swinger or big picture guy, do you think you would have wanted to work on the railroad, or would you have wanted to be one of the engineers building it?

SPEAKER_01: 6:01

Boy, that's interesting. I think I'd want to work on a railroad.

SPEAKER_04: 6:06

Swing a hammer, move down the rails. Yeah. You would you want to be on the West Coast crew or the East Coast crew?

SPEAKER_01: 6:12

Well, probably the West Coast crew.

SPEAKER_04: 6:15

Yeah. Coming from Sacramento Inn.

SPEAKER_01: 6:17

Yeah. Sacramento Inn.

SPEAKER_04: 6:19

So that's our first book, Nothing Like It in the World by Stephen Ambrose. He's one of our favorite historians. And that's number five. All right, number four. We have also by Stephen Ambrose, Undaunted Courage about Lewis and Clark. What'd you love about that book?

SPEAKER_01: 6:39

It was one of my favorite books because you could go day by day by day as they went through their journey. And I thought it was an unbelievable journey, how it turned out, how they got involved with the Indians, how they fought, how they got out, how they were helped by the Indians. And I thought it was a tremendous trip and a return trip I thought was excellent too. Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 7:05

Have you been to any of the locations that Lewis and Clark visited?

SPEAKER_01: 7:08

Oh, yes. I've been to several of them in uh Oregon and and in Utah. Yeah. I've been to a couple of their actual places where they got mild markers now, where they took readings and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_04: 7:23

So let me ask you a question. What matters most? Courage, friendship, or curiosity? Probably more of curiosity, I think. Yeah. That's what drove them.

SPEAKER_03: 7:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 7:36

If you could join them for one part of the journey, where would you have wanted to join them?

SPEAKER_01: 7:42

I think when uh they met the the the uh Indian gal that was with them, found uh her own family, and her brother was uh in charge of the tribe, and they welcomed Lewis and Clark, and I thought that was very important. From there on they helped them in the to get to the West Coast.

SPEAKER_04: 8:03

Do you think we've lost the spirit of discovery today?

SPEAKER_01: 8:07

Well, it it's different today because of satellite, because of all of the modern technology we have now to pinpoint where we are right now. Right, we're sitting in this chair. You can take a reading and tell me exactly where I am. But in those days, they had no idea where they were. Yeah. And so it was a lot on just do it. Yeah. And see what see what happens.

SPEAKER_04: 8:35

Yeah, so that's Stephen Ambrose writing Undaunted Courage, the story of Lewis and Clark. And I just a few weeks ago reported live on the Mango Times podcast that I was on the Lewis and Clark Trail on my motorcycle on my trip to Montana.

SPEAKER_03: 8:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 8:51

All right, number three. This one's by Candace Millard. It is called The River of Doubt. And this is the story of Roosevelt's trip down, now it's called the Roosevelt River in the Amazon. You remember that story? Yes. Yeah. So he had lost his run for the presidency. Yes. And every time Roosevelt had a major disappointment in his life, he answered by going off on an adventure. That's right. So when his wife and his mother died, he went to the Badlands and started ranching.

SPEAKER_02: 9:26

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 9:27

And tamed the West. I mean, he was he was a badass up in the Dakotas and up into Montana.

SPEAKER_02: 9:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 9:35

But when he lost the second time, when he was in charge of the Bull Moose Party, and he lost that battle, he basically split the vote, but lost the vote. In a case of depression, he was invited to travel to South America to follow the river of doubt. Yes. Which is what they called it. Just it was an uncharted river. Along the way, they hollowed out the canoe. They'd go over the falls and their canoes would get destroyed. Yes. And then they'd cut down a tree, hollow out a new canoe, and continue down the river. Yes. And if you remember, he lost hundreds of cattle along the way.

SPEAKER_02: 10:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 10:17

He lost most of his men just cutting across the land to get to the river.

SPEAKER_02: 10:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 10:22

And then he and his son Kermit. Roosevelt almost didn't make it. He had dengue fever or malaria or something. I don't know. Yes, he did. Some and they he almost died on the river. He almost died on the river. That's right. So some questions. So what do you think was his motivation in doing that challenge down the river?

SPEAKER_01: 10:46

Well it was it's it was an adventure on his part. It was something nobody else had accomplished yet. And so it's important for him to uh to be that person to accomplish that journey. Do you think you would have made it out of life? He went? Do you think you would have made it out of life on that trip? Well uh you know, we're today we don't have the the knowledge. Uh we have much more knowledge now. Back in those days, it would have been an adventure, yes. Because w we didn't know yet. What you don't know, you don't know. Sure. Until you experience it.

SPEAKER_04: 11:27

Have you ever seen someone reinvent themselves in the second half of life? Like Roosevelt did? You know, he went from being a career politician to an adventurer, to a leader like that. Can you think of someone who's reinvented themselves in the second half of their life?

SPEAKER_01: 11:45

Well, uh John uh James was a contractor here in town. He did a lot of work for his on our house on uh out the ranch. He did work at the house, he got this house already for his and then one day he decided that to buy some property over on the eastern part of California, Susanville, which he did, and he was commuting with his truck from Susanville once a week. He'd go there in the first part of the week and he'd work on those houses, and he bought a several houses and remodeled them and then rented them out and then owned them. Well, after a while he said to himself, he started taking flying lessons, and he amazed me because uh he not only be became a pilot, but he uh he said he know I'm gonna be an instructor.

SPEAKER_04: 12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 12:38

And then he changed life and now he trains people to pilot, but he still commutes by plane every day. He changed in the middle of his life from contracting to now to doing things with it, flying with his plane wherever he wants to go. Yeah, he took you on a plane trip. He's taken me on a couple of trips and he offered me again. He says, Come on, I'll take you again.

SPEAKER_04: 13:00

All right, before we go into our top two, let's take a break right here. Alright, back in the studio here. Before we head into our top two, let me pause. Uh, next season on the Mango Times podcast is going to lean hard into midlife adventure. And what I want to do is I want to talk with people who've made bold choices in the second half of life. I want to talk to folks who've reinvented themselves, um, taken risks, or just found a new trail to follow in midlife or into their second half of life. So if someone comes to mind, or if it's you, I'd love to hear about it. Uh, they don't need to be local. I can interview remotely. So do me a favor, feel free to send me any suggestions you might have. And here's how you can let me know. The easiest way is to send me your suggestion by scrolling down the show notes and clicking send fletch a text. Give me the details, and I will take it from there. Who knows? Maybe the person you know will be a guest here on the Mango Times podcast next season. So thanks for your help. Alright, let's head back to the porch for the top two adventure books on our list. Alright, so we're back on the porch. We hope you're liking our discussion of our top five adventure books. These are books that when you read them, they inspire you to get out and do your own adventure. Whether that's ride a motorcycle, take a plane, drive across country, do something big. So our number two book is In the Heart of the Sea by Nathaniel Philbrook, and it's about the whale ship Essex.

SPEAKER_02: 14:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 14:46

And these were a group of sailors from Nantucket Island going after sperm whales for the purpose of getting whale oil.

SPEAKER_01: 14:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 14:58

And why did we need whale oil at that time?

SPEAKER_01: 15:01

Well, for lanterns, for heating, yeah. Things that's such.

SPEAKER_04: 15:05

So this was before they discovered crude oil. Right, right. So this was an industry that mattered.

SPEAKER_02: 15:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_04: 15:12

And these were men that would leave at sea for years. Yeah, years, right. And they didn't come back till they had a ship full of oil.

SPEAKER_01: 15:22

That's right.

SPEAKER_04: 15:24

So this book is about a true story about the whale ship Essex. They take off from Nantucket Island.

SPEAKER_03: 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 15:33

And they head down the Atlantic, eventually around the horn, and then to chase whales in the Pacific.

SPEAKER_01: 15:42

That's right.

SPEAKER_04: 15:43

Because they pretty much depleted the sperm whale pomp population in the Atlantic. Yes. And the the whales were mostly in the Pacific. So along the way, I mean they had problems right out of the bat. They had to get a new crew in Spain. They had to get new supplies in Spain because the storms right off the Atlantic had destroyed them. But when they got out to the Pacific, they got hit by a whale.

SPEAKER_03: 16:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 16:10

And it cracked the ship in two. And these men got into whaling boats. Yeah. And they drifted and drifted and drifted. Made it to islands, survived on found fresh water on the islands until that was depleted. And then finally, two of the sailors said, We're gonna leave you here and we're gonna take off and we're gonna find our way.

SPEAKER_03: 16:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 16:36

And when they were finally rescued, they did bring people back and rescue them off the island. But that's a heroic tale of whaling. Can you imagine what it would have been like to be on a whaling ship?

SPEAKER_01: 16:48

No. I would have a heck of an imagination.

SPEAKER_04: 16:52

No, I can't. So how does that story grip you more than say the Moby Dick story?

SPEAKER_01: 16:57

Well, they're they're similar in a sense, there were adventure stories that there were one on. There wasn't no one before them that had done it. So it was a first-time uh adventure. Yeah. And they're unbelievable adventures when we compare our style of living today, than what a windman back in those days.

SPEAKER_04: 17:19

What does it show you about the will to survive?

SPEAKER_01: 17:23

Well, I think everybody has a will to survive. I think that's um kind of a built-in your DNA to survive. No matter what it is, whether you're in a cave or whether you're underground or underwater or caught in a situation which looks apparently it's desperate. You have a strong will to live, yes.

SPEAKER_04: 17:46

Yeah. You had been to sea. Yes. Yeah. So do you think you would have signed up for a whaling ship back in the day?

SPEAKER_01: 17:56

It's hard to say. I w wasn't into wall whales when I was sailing, so I hadn't no background experience in it. But even thinking back then, maybe that was the a way of life, and that's what you went for, and that's why you went to sea. So I could have been involved.

SPEAKER_04: 18:16

Yeah, you have the stories of people getting married, then they leave for two years.

SPEAKER_01: 18:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 18:20

Yeah. Yeah. And uh their life is aboard a ship. Yes. All right, we have a couple of honorable mentions before we get to our number one reveal, which I'm guessing you already know what our number one book is gonna be. But honorable mention number one, Dove by Robin Lee Graham. Yes. What do you think drives a 16-year-old to sail around the world?

SPEAKER_01: 18:43

Well, I think uh yeah, it was uh that adventurous spirit, and he was into sailing, and the fact that uh he was able to convince his father to let him uh make his first trip to Hawaii, but they he did have uh a lot of an experience off the coast here of sailing. He his father had faith in him that he could accomplish, so he encouraged him. Yeah, and so but it was amazing that he had that drive at that age at 15 years. Yeah. But uh when I was uh young at that age, I was sailing too at 15, 16. I was sailing on a Rarten River out of New Jersey, and I belonged to a sailing club, and I was most kids my age 12, 13, 14, 15 were in the Boy Scouts. I was in the Sea Scouts. And so where we met at our meetings and stuff, we had an outline of a ship and we did all of the lifestyle, if that was an actual ship. And then we f eventually we got our own sailboat and sailed on the uh river out of New Brunswick, New Jersey.

SPEAKER_04: 19:56

Do you think parents would let their kids live that kind of adventure today?

SPEAKER_01: 20:02

I think if the the child had an early enough interest in something like that, they would encourage them.

SPEAKER_04: 20:11

And I think you've answered this one, but if you could sail anywhere, where would you go?

SPEAKER_01: 20:16

Uh now I would go to Australia. I as much as I've read books and traveled across Australia, followed the railroads there, the shipping ports and all that. I think uh Australia at the time, in fact, at the when we moved here back in the late 60s from Baltimore here, I uh had uh I was ready to go and I tried to convince mom that we would get a boat here in San Francisco and we would sail to Australia. But she said, What are you, nuts? I'm not gonna go there. But I said we could sail to Australia. I was confident myself that I could sail to Australia. I had enough sailing experience off the coast of California.

SPEAKER_04: 21:06

All right. Honorable mention number two, Into Africa, the story of Stanley and Livingston.

SPEAKER_03: 21:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 21:13

Why did the phrase Dr. Livingston, I presume, capture the world's imagination?

SPEAKER_01: 21:21

Well, because he was missing so long. And the fact that uh when the fellow uh finally ran into him, it it was an interesting uh comment for him to make.

SPEAKER_04: 21:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:33

And so uh it it kind of uh went around the world quite a bit.

SPEAKER_04: 21:37

I think we all get a picture of him coming through the bushes of Africa and suddenly saying, Oh. So was this more discovery or ego? It could have been a little both, but I I think discovery was if you had to trek across Africa in the 1800s, what's one item you would insist on bringing with you?

SPEAKER_01: 22:00

I would think a if it was available a compass.

SPEAKER_04: 22:04

Yeah. Compass or a uh sextant, maybe.

SPEAKER_01: 22:07

Or sextant, yeah. If I was familiar enough to read a sextant, yeah. Compass at least.

SPEAKER_04: 22:14

All right, so those are our two honorable mentions: Dove by Robin Lee Graham and Into Africa, the story of Stanley and Livingston. We're gonna take another break here and we are going to come back for our number one adventure book that we recommend. Okay. Hey Fletch here back in the studio. If you've been enjoying the Mago Times podcast, the best way to support the show is very simple. First and easiest, just share the show, share this episode with someone you think would like it. Second, you can buy me a taco. It's a super fun way to fund the show. Just go down the show notes and hit buy Fletch a Taco. Lastly, and most importantly, you can leave me a review and a rating over on Apple Podcasts. Listen to this one that just came in this month.

SPEAKER_00: 23:07

I am truly enjoying Fletch's thoughts and adventures, more so his process throughout. Not only do I appreciate this life experience, but value the questions he poses to his audience. It gets me thinking, there is such importance in this type of community spirit, each other on our individual experiences. Thank you, Fletch.

SPEAKER_04: 23:26

Seriously, as a listener to this podcast, leaving a review is a fantastic way to support the show and to help other people find the podcast. So, whichever one of those you choose, I just want you to know. I really, really appreciate it. Alright, enough begging. Let's get back to our show. All right, and we are back. We've gone through our list. I'm just going to review it again. Number five was Nothing Like It in the World by Stephen Ambrose about the Transcontinental Railroad. Number four, Undaunted Courage, also by Ambrose about Lewis and Clark and their trek to find the West Coast. Number three, The River of Doubt by Candace Millard. That's a Roosevelt story of going down the river of doubt in Amazon. In the Heart of the Sea by Nathaniel Philbrook about the whale ship Essex. And then two honorable mentions, Dove and Into Africa. So now for our number one, our favorite adventure book of all time. Do you know what it is? Command. Endurance. Sure. It's endurance. It's about Shackleton's trek to get to the South Pole.

SPEAKER_01: 24:38

That's right.

SPEAKER_04: 24:39

Ship gets stuck in the ice. How many people, how many people died that were under Shackleton's command?

SPEAKER_01: 24:46

None. None. They all survived.

SPEAKER_04: 24:49

Yeah, and it was a trek from getting the boat crushed in the ice all the way to navigating through lifeboats and sailboats. But he saved every man. What stands out most to you about Shackleton as a leader?

SPEAKER_01: 25:06

He uh first he was very knowledgeable and he understood men on the being cooped together and out on uh what they needed and what kind of instruction they needed and help. So he was very caring for his crew. He listened to them, and then they made decisions based on what he thought was best for him.

SPEAKER_04: 25:28

How do you think he kept his men believing when all looked hopeless?

SPEAKER_01: 25:32

I I think that was part of the leadership we have. Some people rise into leadership that just take command. They make decisions that are right, and then they decide that that they're they're they're gonna be their leader, and they they have faith in them.

SPEAKER_04: 25:49

If Shackleton lived today, what role do you think would fit him best? Would he be a CEO, a general, a pastor, or an explorer?

SPEAKER_01: 25:59

He had a lot of pastor capabilities there in order to have people have faith in him as to make those decisions. So I would say pastor.

SPEAKER_04: 26:11

All right. Well, that wraps up our top five adventure books. But here is where this podcast is gonna get fun. We want to give you a chance to win one of these top five books. It's your choice. So here's how it goes. Before October 15th, you just need to send us a message. Just slide down in the show notes and hit send fletch a text, and you tell us which of those books is your favorite story and why you want to read it. And we will draw your name out of a hat and you can be a winner. How does that sound, Pop?

SPEAKER_01: 26:43

That sounds terrific.

SPEAKER_04: 26:44

All right. Do you have any closing thoughts for us when it comes to adventure or adventure books?

SPEAKER_01: 26:50

No, well, one thing is don't stop reading. I read a book a week at least on some subject. I said, I just picked books that if winner described, there's something there that catches my attention, and I decide to read it.

SPEAKER_04: 27:06

So that's that's why I brought you on, because I felt just by talking about our favorite book, we might have triggered someone to want to pick one up to read. All right, that's it for episode 44. This is Fletch, and this is This is Joe. Pop Bop Joe. We will talk to you next time. All right. So in case I've made this confusing at all, I want to clear it all up for you right here. This is how you take your chance to snag a free book. All you need to do is tell me your favorite adventure book. One of the five we just mentioned, the one that you like the best, and send it my way. To enter, just scroll down the show notes and shoot me a text. Include your name and the name of the book that you like. It's that easy. You need to do it, however, before October 15th. Now, what we're gonna do, we're gonna toss your name in the hat, and then Pop will pick the winner right here on the porch, and you will get a digital or audible copy of your choice from our top five adventure books. It's as simple as that. In the meantime, as always, thank you for listening to the Mango Times podcast. I really appreciate the messages you all have been sending in. And until next time, don't forget to get out there and quietly make some noise. You have been listening to the Mango Times Podcast. Everything written and produced on this is by Andy Fletcher. If you're going to use it, steal it, borrow it, or share it on the internet, please just let me know. I don't care. I just want to know where my voice is being used out on the internet. And as a bit of a disclaimer, don't forget, everything I recommend on this podcast, you should use discretion. Choose whether you should watch it, listen to it, eat it, try it, go there. But when you do, don't forget to quietly make some noise. Thanks for listening.

SPEAKER_01: 28:59

That we would get a boat here in San Francisco and we would sail to Australia in a sailboat, just the three kids and mom and I.

SPEAKER_04: 29:09

Yeah, it's interesting because there was a fourth kid at the time. Just I've just for the audience's sake, that would have been me. But I was gonna be left at home.

SPEAKER_01: 29:18

Yeah. But she said, What are you nuts?

SPEAKER_00: 29:23

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